From Arcade to the Milonga: conversation with Stephen Aldaco

Hello and welcome to the 78th episode of The Tango Banter. I'm Yelizaveta. You know, this podcast has been going on for a while and recently I've been reflecting and asking myself, what is this podcast really about?

And the other day I thought, you know, you've heard that saying, it takes two to tango. It's cliche, I know. But I think as I reflect on all of the, all of the topics I've covered, most of them, if not all of them on some level have to do with relating to other people.

So it's about relationships. It's about what it takes to be in the world and connect and find your place and perhaps even enjoy being part of that place and connect.

I'm really interested in this idea of what it means to really what it means to relate to another person, not necessarily just romantically.

not just romantically, because I think tango exposes so many other possibilities for relating to other people. And it gives us the space and challenges us to figure it out, to find a way to get along, to solve problems, to resolve conflict.

How do we deal with the inevitable messiness that is being among other people? These are the things that Tango pushed me to consider for myself. And I think when I boil down all of the topics that I've covered, even though on the surface they're about Tango.

The deeper desire for me here is to learn to relate to other people better, to exist in the world better and to enjoy it. Social tango, I think, is a place for anti-social people to learn to be social.

The other day in one of my live banters that I do almost every Friday inside my private Facebook group, which you're welcome to join once again, link is in the bio, link is in the comments. Somebody said that Tango is full of anti-social people and it really is kind of like that.

that Tango is a way for anti-social people to be social because it's a controlled environment and you can take it in the doses that you can handle and there's a little bit more room to be onto. So I think it's so true that most of us who come to Tango don't come because we're super confident and we believe in ourselves as... really creative and talented and we're just looking for ways to amplify our greatness.

Most of us come because there's some sort of a desire, a lack of something, a desire to connect and to be a part of something because we're missing out on some very specific elements in our lives. All of us, I think, share this deep desire to not feel alone, to feel accepted, to be part of a community, to have friends.

And social tango is the journey for a lot of people to that place of empowerment. So in a way, for me, tango is this coming of age story for myself and for a lot of other people. And I'm really interested in that story

because even though it's the same, it's perhaps the same narrative, it is very individual. Everybody comes to it in very different ways. And it's been really fun to discover that some people have very similar stories to myself and other people have very different experiences.

It's really a podcast about people coming into their own in a way and finding themselves through tango. And one of these people that I've had the privilege of meeting and dancing with is Stephen Aldaco, who is a dancer here in Los Angeles. And we have been talking for a long time about doing a banter together.

So today it is my deep pleasure to present to you a banter between me and Stephen. And we chatted a lot about his journey in tango and how he ended up coming from a background of solo performance style dance like ballet and modern and ended up becoming a tango nomad living out of his Honda element, traveling around the city, dancing as much as possible.

Real quick, I just wanna tell you that I have some travel dates coming up for teaching and DJing mostly on the West Coast, not much on the East Coast yet.

But if you're curious about where I'm going to be in the next few months, you can check out my full itinerary on my website at ImSotango.com. The link is in the show notes. And you will also see that this month in August, I'm running a promotion on my private sessions. So if some of you are local and you're interested in doing some private sessions, check it out.

The last day that this promotion will run is August 31st. So the info is all on the website. Now, without further delay, here is Stephen Aldaco.

Welcome Stephen to the Tango Banter. Thank you for having me. It's been a long time coming. We've had this conversation several months ago. In the works for a while. And I'm excited to see what this banter is all about. Me too. So to start, I want to learn a little bit about where tango came into your life and what brought you to this dance. Great question. It started a long, long time ago. And it landed far away. No.

When I was five years old, okay, I went to Las Vegas with my parents and there was a giant dance revolution machine. Do you know what dance revolution is?

It's like the arcade game. You use your feet and you stop on it. Yeah. Okay. So anyway, I'm five years old and I see these like kids dancing on this arcade game and I really wanted to try it, but I was like so young and like intimidated. I like the big kids were playing like this game, right. Um, but I worked up the courage at five or so, and I was like, I'm going to play this game and I played it and I picked like, I didn't know what to pick. So they picked a song for me. It was really hard and I failed in front of everybody. There's like a big crowd watching.

And it was just, it was a lot of fun just like to move your feet to like this rhythm game. And yeah, that was just like a memory I have of like, where my love for dance like started, you know? Wow, you know, I never played that game. I remember seeing it, I think, advertised. I remember seeing it advertised. And I think I do remember looking at it and going, wow, this would be really fun.

There was something that I was recognizing about it, but maybe it is kind of like a great introduction to tango is to tell people that you know, Dance Revolution, it's like that. It's just kind of like moving to the rhythm. And then like in high school, I continue to play throughout my life, essentially. And during high school, I couldn't really pay much attention to high school. And I would essentially ditch school every day to go to the arcade to play Dance Revolution. Like I was hardcore into this.

Now, is there like a culture behind this game of like, did you have a was there an equivalent of a Malanga where you and a bunch of kids would get together and compete or something? Not quite. Yes, there were competitions, but yeah, they would kind of surround the game and there'd be like lines and you'd put your quarter on the machine to like show your turn.

In a way, it's kind of a performance because you have like a crowd of people watching you play as you go and try like your best song or whatever. Wow. And so there were probably like the kids who were really good at it and then the kids you kind of wanted to be good at it.

Oh, nice. And so you did this all through high school. All through high school. And later in college is when I started to study like other forms of dance. I studied like ballet, modern jazz, all of this stuff. I started really late in life. I was like 21. Yeah, that's really unusual for, especially for a guy. Yeah. To like.

And I'm curious, did you grow up with automatically this sense of that you can study dancing, there's nothing strange about it? Or did you have to overcome any sort of the years around that? Yeah, especially as a guy like, and growing up in like, the hood of LA, you know, like, it was very out of character from where I came from, you know.

S: Which neighborhood of LA was it? I grew up in Downey, which is like a nice neighborhood now, but growing up, it wasn't as nice, you know? Um, but.

Essentially at that time I was like kind of a like a chubby computer nerd and all I would do is play video games And at this is how I was like 20 21 and at some point I was like, you know, like I'm not gonna meet any women Playing these games like a light bulb went off in my head. It's like I gotta I gotta make a change I'm gonna want to if I want to meet women so I was like

Okay, I could do yoga, which I did not want to do at that time, or I could do ballet. There's pretty girls in ballet. Maybe I'll meet some girls doing ballet. But then I just fell in love with the art form itself, like the difficulty and the technique and everything about it. So trying to meet women was secondary once I got into it. It was like a discipline, like a martial art in a way. That's amazing. Yeah. I studied ballet for a little while,

I've always fantasized about this idea of studying ballet, of being a ballet dancer, but I always felt like I didn't really get to do that at the age where I could do something with it. You know, you have to start so early to like have any sort of future in it.

Y: But I don't think I've ever heard of anybody describing ballet in this way of, first of all, to meet women, being a good scene for that, but I guess you're right. And then it's not a lot of competition. Yeah. So, I mean, how successful were you? I mean, I'm curious. Did it pay off?

S: Sure. Yeah. A few times. But like, you know, it wasn't it became not about that. Right. At a certain point.

Y: But at least you were like, at least you're like, OK, I get that, too. So that's not that's not a bad investment of time.

S: No, definitely not.

Y: The thing you were looking for also you discover this passion in yourself for dance. Yeah.

S: So you said that you did do a little bit of ballet growing up?

Y: Not growing up. I also decided that I was going to study ballet later in life. I guess I was probably in my 30s already when I... thought to myself like, why not? And I took some ballet classes that were just sort of meant for adults, you know, at a studio, like a six week beginner class. And then I also, I think as a tango dancer, I sort of had this doubt about myself deserving the title of being a dancer, because I never was like, I never studied dance in college, I didn't train.

Like I could only go so far as a dancer until I came up against this wall of like well you don't know it's like in college so I actually then decided I was gonna take ballet in college so that I could see what it's like at that level and I was really anticipating that I was gonna get there I was gonna learn all this amazing stuff all this new information that dancers know that I might not know.

But what I realized is it's the same exact world that I was living in all along, that it's actually not that different. So that's how my journey with ballet was more of like realizing that ballet is just a dance. It's not like, it's not different from other forms of movement.

It's just has a very particular place in our culture and we attach a lot of meaning to ballet as a form, you know. Yeah. But on its, at its basis, you know, in its basic form, it's just, it's just a form. It's just a dance. So anybody could do it. So that was my kind of insight with it.

S: Did you grow up in LA?

Y: No, no, I did not. I've only been in LA for about five years.

S: Only? That's a long time. Five years, yeah.

Y: But yeah, I actually grew up in Africa because that's where my dad was working at the time. My dad was a diplomat, so he was stationed in Africa for about seven years or so. So we were there and then we came back to Russia in the nineties and then the Soviet Union fell apart. And then we came to the States. So it was kind of jumping around a lot. So you were studying ballet in your twenties. Was there other dances that kind of creeped in with that. And yeah.

S: Um, so as part of like the dance course at the school that was at, they had you take other courses like modern dance and tap dance and African dance and everything under the sun, you know, and, um, the modern dance really spoke to me. I love modern dance, just like.

I also just love the studying the history of ballet and modern dance during my college courses and learning how modern dance was bred because people were trying to break the rules of ballet. They're like, okay, you're always pointing your feet, but what happens when you flex your feet? And taking these abstract movements and making it into an art form. And I just, I love that whole creative process. I loved being a part of other people's creative process creative process when they would do like choreographies. I loved being a part of it and.

I just like, I like to be in a little weird, you know, like, cause you can be a little weird in these, in these spaces. Absolutely. And it's okay. Somewhere it crosses over into performance art. Right. And it's all okay as long as it's in that category. Yeah, so you can do some, and like, when it all comes together on, and you see it on stage and it comes as whole production and you see the finished product, you're like, wow, I was like, I was a part of that.

You know, you become like just a small piece in a bigger puzzle. That's what you think is really cool. And so how long did this phase last for you? About five years or so. Five years just doing little performances here and there.

And I was always against partner dancing. I was like, partner dancing, get out of here with that.

Y: Wow. Yeah. And what was it about it that you were so against? What was the thing that you didn't like?

S: What I didn't, at the time, at the time, I'm changed now, but at the time, it seemed, maybe I was a bit stuck up, but it seemed easy. It seemed too easy. Like, I was like, swing dance, salsa dance, like I can learn that in like easily like in a day I can pick up I can learn the dance and it wasn't the same with like ballet and modern dance like train your body to get to a certain level to actually you know use it.

But I did go to swing dancing nights eventually, and I enjoyed it. I just like, okay, this is a fun way just to let loose, have fun, and connect with people. So I did swing dance for a good two years.

Y: This was also at the college?

S: No, this was at an atomic ballroom, shout out, Atomic Ballroom. Shout out, Atomic Ballroom. That's where I started tango, actually.

Y: Oh, wow, cool. So what happened is for two years, I was dancing swing dance, big ballroom there was tango and I always knew there was tango in this room but I never decided to actually like venture into that room. I was like I don't care about tango. But one day I decided to just kind of like poke my head in and like what's going on in there and see what it's all about and then I see like people like dressed up and they have their like their suits and their jacket and there's like women in these like beautiful dresses and it's.

It's sexy, but it's not like raunchy. Like I would describe like the chat that I saw. So they're not like grinding up on each other. It was like, it was sexy, but it was elegant at the same time. And I was just like, whoa, what is this? And then the music, I'm like, it's like never heard anything like it, you know? So I went back the next Friday and I took a class with Joe Banks. He's a teacher in atomic ballroom.

And then I noticed a lot of the similarities where it's like, I'm just trying to walk. I'm just trying to walk forward. But I had that same difficulty I found in ballet where it's like, I'm just trying to point my toe, but there's so much technique in just trying to point your toe. So then I was like, maybe I liked the challenge. I don't know. So I decided to like pursue it because it was so challenging, you know? Wow.

Y: Yeah. Keywords there because it's so challenging. Yeah. I've noticed that consistently when I maybe talk to people or think about who are the people who really stick with Tango, who really penetrated and really get into it. A lot of times it's this quality of really loving a challenge, loving the process of problem solving or developing abilities that you don't have yet, like that challenge of going through the process. For many people, it's actually the attractant, but for a lot of people, it's the opposite, right? The moment they feel that challenge, they're like, can't do it.

So it definitely interesting. It definitely attracts a certain personality type. I think. Yeah. So now it's been how many years that you've been dancing tango?

S: Let's see. 25, 34, nine years. Nice. And do you dance anything else at this point? No, no. So at that time, you know, I was still sort of dancing ballroom and like ballet and modern and stuff and then once I tried tango, I was like, okay, this is the one. Like if I wanna be good at a dance, I'm gonna hyper-focus on this one particular dance and that's it.

Like I dropped all the other classes. Like, okay, this is the one where I felt most like aligned with when I danced it.

Y: As in it resonated the most with who you are deeply. Yeah. There's something about it that, like you are reincarnated Milonguero from the 30s your way back to tango kind of? Yeah and you mentioned it way earlier it's like did you struggle like doing like ballet like as a man ?

S: Yeah I did I did there's a stigma especially in the States like he's a man dancing tango so he must be homosexual or something you know and you mean ballet? Ballet that's what I meant to say yeah you know there's a lot of like stigma and stuff like that.

But when I danced tango, I was able to feel like very like in my masculine, you know what I mean? I could feel like, like I feel like a man. And, you know, and, and it was great. I was like, Oh, this feels so right. It was more of a feeling for me. It was like, this feels right. This feels right. And I, yeah, it was different because maybe this is my own thing, but I felt maybe a little bit of shame around my ballet dancing.

Like I loved it, but I know the perception of how people would think about me. And that was difficult to deal with, you know? But with tango, I'm like, oh, yeah, hell yeah. It's the opposite. Yeah, you know, I can say I'm a tango dancer. Be like super proud of it.

Y: That's so interesting. Yeah. I guess I, yeah, I can relate to that to that shift and that feeling of shame. I definitely didn't feel that in ballet the same way because I have being a woman is very different ballet is very feminine, right? And then it's most of the time is very much dominated by women. And it's cool to think about what it's like for a guy who comes into a ballet class. Do you feel now that the ballet work that you did influences tango, how you dance? What are some of the things that you notice?

S: Well, I had to unlearn a lot of things for sure. Like some of it does translate like the extension and if I was to ever like perform a lot of that performance training, it comes into mind like where the audience is and all this sort of stuff. But tango is a very grounded dance, really connected to the floor and you have to use the floor for a lot of things. And then ballet, yes, you use the floor, but you're very lifted, you're very up, you're always up all the time.

So I really had to like unlearn that part of my dancing where I had to be like much more grounded as a part was supposed to be like always up and lifted. You know?

But that's interesting. I something I talk about actually in classes or whenever I talk about posture and I try to give people a sense of what it's supposed to feel like. I do talk about ballet as being the example of that one extreme where it's like you're as lifted as you possibly can. And it's all about sort of being weightless. And then on the other extreme, you might have something like African dance that's super

Yelizaveta (19:13.496)

hips are super relaxed knees bent and it's very kind of low to the ground and if

you were to think in terms of, you know, those graphics that they make of evolution, where it goes from like ape to human being. I do, yeah. I think about dance in that way, and you can have like on the one extreme, you have the African dance movement and on the other extreme of evolution, you have ballet. Sure. Right? Tango is somewhere on, ooh. Tango is somewhere on the continuum between those two points.

it's a lot closer to that African sort of posture and groundedness than it is to ballet, even though now.

what we might see on stage or in performance will be a little closer to the ballet sort of feeling of that line and extension exaggeration, but it's more for stage. I think for social tango, it is very much closer to that African dance alignments and the movement quality.

So now I want to ask you, because you lead, right? So as a female who leads, how has that been for you? Yeah, it's been a really interesting journey. And somewhat, I guess I've experienced somewhat of the similar.

Yelizaveta (20:51.538)

emotions that you might have gone through by being the only man in the ballet class. I definitely have felt those types of things where I'm the only woman who's leading or I'm in a class and there's a shortage of followers and leaders are expecting me to just step into the follower role just because I'm a woman, you know, and that I'm, I don't.

have the right to the limited resource of followers because of that, you know? So I've also, I'm aware of certain dancers not dancing with me because I lead or not taking my dance seriously because I lead or looking at me.

in a certain way when I'm on the dance floor next to them, you know, and sort of kind of giving me this dirty look of some kind. Like I've had those experiences, but I think the culture has really changed over the past.

At least post COVID for sure, there's been, I think, more of a amplification of a shift post COVID because I think people are just tired of sitting around and waiting. So there's been more women leading and that's kind of normalized. And so now it feels pretty cool. I have a lot of respect from a lot of leaders give me a lot of

support and encouragement and compliments. So for the most part, I feel pretty lucky that I can lead and it's fun to be that person who's like the odd person. Oh, she's a woman, she's like at the championship especially, it was pretty interesting because people kept getting confused with like where to put me because even the announcer like announced it incorrectly because she couldn't, she thought it was a mistake

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women's names next to each other. Anyway, so I do feel like now there's a bit more of a pronounced shift towards normalization of women leading. So it's been fun for me now. But at first it was pretty tough for sure.

Follow up question. So did you experience that everywhere you went or specifically in like LA area where I assume you mostly dance? By the time I got to LA, I think there was already, I was already pretty established as a leader.

I don't know if that's actually true. I just feel like by the time I came to LA, a lot of people knew me and I already had a lot of friends. So it was actually funny because when I moved to LA, I was in this phase where I was like, I quit tango. Man, I don't wanna dance tango anymore. I was like done with it. It was the time I came back from Buenos Aires, I gave up wearing heels, I was sort of fed up with the whole scene. So I moved to LA and...

I was in this phase of just kind of trying to discover what I wanted to do now and I didn't want to do tango. And it was because people already knew me. So once they found out I was in LA, people were so excited about me being here. And that's actually what kind of brought me back out because

I didn't have to do that labor of establishing myself in the community, which I've had to do that several times.

Yelizaveta (24:34.082)

difficult, you know, when nobody knows you. So by the time I come to came to LA, it was it was pretty smooth sailing, I should say compared to. But the toughest part was leading in Buenos Aires. That was the biggest test. And I did lead as salon canning one night and I thought I was gonna shit my pants. I was so nervous. I was, you know, because the time before when I came to Buenos Aires, and I saw two women leading at

salon counting, I was like, Oh my God, what's gonna happen? Are they gonna kick him off the dance floor? It was like a big deal back then. So I think Buenos Aires is probably the only place still that has more of that difficulty. Like if I go to Buenos Aires, I think about that right now for myself.

Like when I wanna go to Buenos Aires, for example, I'm not gonna be able to go to Albezo because I don't wear heels. And I know that I'm not gonna be let in and he's not gonna allow me to wear flats and dance as a leader. Like, I'm pretty sure that's gonna be a limitation, you know? And I'm not gonna make that compromise, like I'm not gonna dance in heels, you know? So, yeah. Well, I mean, when I went to Buenos Aires, I was...

I'm scared to dance at salon canning too. I mean, it's intimidating for sure. It's like, it's so packed and it's the whole, it's the whole. It's the historic part of it. Yeah, but I ended up, when I was there, I ended up gravitating to different spaces. And I think you find your. Yeah, exactly. I'll just have to find a new crowd. I mean, the queer tango piece is.

is the one that's kind of up and coming. So I think that would be the place I would start. Yeah. Sort of get into those milongas a little bit more. But I find it so fascinating that even within like, just like tango dancing, there's like.

Yelizaveta (26:34.37)

Like there's the one Milonga where you go like, oh, dressed up and you wear a suit tie, the whole shebang. And then there's other places, like I'll just say like locally, oxygen tango or something. You can show up and like- You can wear your pajamas. You wear your pajamas and just be comfortable and like- You can still have popcorn on your t-shirt from snacking earlier and you can show up totally. But I personally like that vibe better. Cause I- Which one? Like the more relaxed. More relaxed, yeah.

situation. There's a time and a place, you know, totally. But like if I, I wouldn't want to do it every week. Like it's just, you know, it seems like a lot to me to like, you know, go out, get dressed up, do the Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's, it's a commitment. It is for sure. You know, one thing I was mesmerized by this when I went to pornositis, especially when I was there for six months, I really got to

kind of see it over a long period of time. I got to go to the same malongas and I was like on a schedule, same malongas every week. I was, it was maybe some people are like, really, you didn't really do anything else other than dance? Like literally, I didn't do anything. Didn't travel, didn't see any sightseeing, I just danced. And it was interesting to see the seasons and the people and what they're wearing. And I particularly noted

the culture around Kachirulo, milonga, and that's been going on for, I don't know, forever. Millions of years, it just seems like it's the ancient milonga that's been going on forever. And I would go and I would see the same people and they would sit at the same tables, they would wear the same things, you know, and you just kind of see this rotation of milongueros and their partners and.

So I spent six months there and then I left. And of course I had this feeling of longing. I wanted to be back there, which I think is a common feeling for people when they first go and they come back and you're like, oh, I want it, I want it, I want it. So then a few years later, when I go back, I go to the same alonga, you know? And I swear to God, that first night, I remember sitting down.

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And it was the same people wearing the same clothes, like the same dresses, the same haircut. And it had been like five years. And it just felt like, wow, it's really this world that is almost like this parallel universe that never changes. That world is always there.

You can always just put your dress on and go there and you it's timeless. It feels so interesting. And for them, you know, I'm just the spec on their timeline. These people have been coming to this Malanga for 30 years sitting at that same table.

And I think that's a very beautiful aspect of their culture. They really live for it. I mean, they have to get up at seven in the morning and they'll still go out and dance till 4 a.m. I don't know how they do it. And they'll do it into their 60s. It's the mate, it's all the mate. They'll drink their mate, they'll be eating their...

you know, they'll do so the leche and their media lunas. And, and I, you know, lived that lifestyle for six months and it destroyed me. Yeah. It literally destroyed my body, my mind. And. Your heart. My heart. And the reason why I'm saying this is that

kind of realizing that it's not the same for us as Americans dancing tango. No, you know what I mean? No, no way. It's kind of like when I was a yoga teacher, the equivalent of Buenos Aires for a yogi is India. Right, right. You know? And so it's the same thing. Right. People really crave to go to India and practice in India because they believe there's something there that's more pure, more authentic, more real, more whatever.

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But in the end, it's like, no, it's not your culture. Like, it's not your thing. You are not Indian. You just cannot understand the culture in the same way. So with tango, it's similar that.

It doesn't work the same way in our communities. It has a very different purpose. People have a very different level of commitment. Yeah. We're not gonna be staying up till 4 a.m., three days in a row, and then going to work. No. Like, I'm just not gonna do that. So, yeah, so that's interesting to think about that.

When I went for a similar reason, because I wanted to like, I wanted to discover like where it's from, what it's all about and like kind of live the life a little bit. And I remember like going in the soup day and just like seeing like people carrying their like instruments, you know, through the city. And I'm like, Oh, this is crazy. And you're like, walk into it's tango. Right. Yeah. You walk into a store and there's like tango music playing. You're like, what the hell? This is cool. Like you would never find that here. Maybe in small little restaurants or whatever. Yeah. But you're right. It's like.

It's not it's not our lived experience. No, not like no. And I mean, it's fine that we're borrowing from it. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's more that it's really I think sometimes I

observe this debate about whether what's being danced here is the real tango and if it's, you know, it's more real there, it's more authentic there because that's where the culture is from and I'm like

Yelizaveta (32:27.898)

Yeah, that's true, but tango is bigger than that. Like it has its own identity in our communities. And something that you said earlier that was exciting for you in modern dance was this

feeling of discovery and innovation of this opening up the box and saying like, oh, well, I always point my toe, but here I can actually flex my toe. And that's a frontier that I think is much more available to people who can think outside the box.

And I think for us tango dancers here in the States, this is kind of what I'm looking for as a dancer is equivalent of that. Cause I see tango as a blueprint that's there. It's like, this is the system of movement.

Here's the rules, right? But now, what can you do with them? And it's a different way of thinking of the role of the dance, because when we're thinking about tango as how it functions in Buenos Aires culture, it's like that's their glue that brings the communities together. It's a thing that they share. It's the thing that they pass on, dancing with each other for years and years. They're not really interested in it necessarily as an art form, like I'm talking.

specifically about like milongueros, like old milongueros who, you know, they don't give a shit about perfect pivot, they just like to dance, right? So that's that. But here, you know, there is that question of like, what else is there? What happens if you break the rules in tango? If you turn it on its head, if you introduce some sort of exploration that's more of that artistic questioning that modern dance cultivates?

Yelizaveta (34:17.698)

and places like Oxygen provide more opportunity for that. And so again, coming back to your original point is that yes, you can have that really dressed up, very almost like ceremonious type of tango. And I'm thinking of like.

even I love Bridgerton right so that idea of the ball and you know we all get dressed up and we're all going to show off our moves and that's cool.

But I don't think that that's enough for us as dancers, at least in my, I guess, immediate community of dancers. I feel like we like that, but we also crave this freedom of just exploring, changing things up and asking questions. So, do you resonate with that at all? Is this something that you think about in your dance?

How does it sound to you? Yeah, I think like having a space like Oxygen where I would try things there that I would never try at salon candy, right? Obviously. I mean.

Sure, there's like the practica where you know, you practice and you try things, but then there's also like the milonga where you kind of dialed in what you know, and you kind of use that and just enjoy the dance. But there are certain risks that you can take at like an oxygen milonga that I couldn't quite take at like a salon canning sort of situation, you know, or if I, I guess if I wanted to, I'd have to be extremely confident that it's going to, it's going to work out, you know?

Yelizaveta (36:03.856)

that you have like on the dance floor itself. So I like that, having that room to explore a little bit more. Even like with some Nuevo-esque movements, you know, I think those are always fun to play with. And

You know, it's not like old school, like super traditional style of tango, but it's what I enjoy to like to do sometimes, you know, just, just have fun and then see what happens. And if like, it doesn't work out, I don't want to worry about bumping someone or what someone else at the M'Long'em might think about what I'm trying, you know? So that's what I really like about those spaces, you know? Yeah.

Yelizaveta (36:52.958)

Now, one thing we haven't talked about, and I really am curious how that relates to your whole journey of dancing, both in ballet, modern, tango, is sailing. How that.

what part that plays in the picture of your exploration. Cause it seems like there's a connection there. Yeah, so I mean, I don't have much experience. I did it for one summer. One of my yoga students was just like, do you wanna learn to sail? And I was sure, like, let's give it a try. And I'm thinking like, all right, we're gonna get my, you know, we're gonna put on some nice shirt. We're gonna sit back, relax, sip some wine. Like this is my original thought of what sailing.

is, you know? More like reclining on a yacht while sipping on a martini. Yes, so this is my thought going in. And I show up to the marina and it's like a small like 14 foot boat and it's like pissing rain and there's like a bunch of so much wind. It was the windiest day I've ever sailed in. The first day out.

And I don't know how to sail at all. And he's like, okay, we're doing a race. He didn't tell me it was a race. We entered a regatta the first day I went sailing and it was just, it was absolutely crazy. It was like pissing wind and like.

I was trying to pull ropes and he's like yelling at me to like, you know, like port side ports and like, what the hell is port side? I don't know what that means yet. It was, it was a crazy experience, but it was really fun and exciting, you know, but how that relates into tango is like, there's this moment when you're sailing and you're like, you're like holding the sail, right? I could picture it. I'm like holding a sail, right. And

Yelizaveta (38:42.59)

You've got this like little tail like string basically, and it's like waving in the wind. And your goal is to get that string to just flow evenly with the wind, right? If it's flowing like this or it's down, you're not really catching the wind. So the wind's blowing and I'm taking the sail and you're just like kind of moving it out and it's very subtle. Like it's just like a little bit here, a little bit there. And you just, and there's a moment where the string just goes, and it's just like perfectly aligned.

know you've got like the perfect wind. But the wind isn't like a static thing. It's gonna move. So you have to like move with it. You have to like find it again. And he has to keep finding this like perfect angle to hold the sail at. And it's very meditative because I can't focus on anything else. Like my job in that moment is to get that string to flow straight. He's guiding the boat. It's a two person situation. So he's guiding the boat. He's telling me like if other boats are coming and I'm just like focusing

on this and.

It's like, it's kind of that subtlety when you're dancing tango, right? It's like, if I'm dancing with a partner, I'm like trying to feel their feet. Like where, where are her feet on the ground? Like, is she forward on her weight? Is she back on her weight? Is where is she planted? And it's like little tiny adjustments. Like, oh, she's kind of back. Let me like pull her, not pull her, let me guide her slightly forward a little bit. It's like, okay, now she's like really on her weight. So now I know I can make this other like slight, maybe like a weight change and like very subtly, and then.

okay, now I feel that she's changed her weight so I can move on to the next step. Where both of those activities I'm like hyper-focused on something. When it's sailing, it's the wind. When dancing, it's like the partner's weight and where they're at. Wow. Yeah. That makes me wanna start sailing. That was such a wonderful description. Very successful image there. I really appreciated that.

Yelizaveta (40:43.426)

I hope you guys appreciate it too. And I'm curious, this idea, you know, it makes sense when you're talking about, you're involved with something that directly you're feeling in your body. So whether it's the sale or another person is there.

a connection to if you think about your ballet dancing or what you do as a dancer in solo movement. Is there something that you can say that you're watching in a similar way or that you're paying attention to in a similar way?

that's like a similar space for your solo movement. So when I'm practicing solo movement, is there something that brings me into that space of like meditation a little bit? Yeah, like what, cause I understood the connection between the sailing and tango and I'm just curious if there's a connection between sailing and ballet or modern. Yeah, if we take like,

let's just say like the performance aspect of like modern dance is what comes to mind first.

It's like you do have all these rehearsals, right? And, um, usually in these rehearsals, like you're, you're choreographed to counts, right? So you got, when modern dance, it could be weird. It could be one, two, three, five, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, then back to one and you have all these counts in your head and you're just like listening for these like subtle cues in the music. And for me, I would, I would count, you know, I would count.

Yelizaveta (42:29.142)

the whole performance. I'm like, okay, I'm like counting in my head, like when is my time to like pop out on stage or to do this particular movement? But you practice it so much. There's like rehearsals and rehearsals and rehearsals. And you just, by the time the performance comes, you kind of know it, right? So when that performance moment happens, you don't have to...

think about it as much. So I'm just focusing on the count. I'm like, okay, this count is happening, so I need to move my arm or move my leg at this time on this count. So that is when it becomes like a meditation. But that takes like work and practice and like memorization to like get there. Wow.

Yeah, that's the thing that actually, I think, makes me most nervous about solo dancing. Any kind of movement that it requires choreography and memory of counts or putting movements together makes me really nervous. And I remember in ballet class, of course, it was the, away from the bar is when I wanted to just leave the class. Across the floor, you're like,

like you want me to what when you kind of have this feeling like okay i kind of know this at the bar plie i got that i got my bath bomb

You know, you know, and then all of a sudden, somehow that is supposed to become a part of this sequence. You know, whatever you're doing here is now supposed to be a choreography of steps. And the brain just goes like alarm, nothing there. Oh, yeah. And it's pretty scary. And I'm sure it's.

Yelizaveta (44:16.594)

it's kind of the same in everything that you start and when it's first it's new and you have that feeling of like oh my god how am i going to survive this but

Question for you. So when did you start dancing? How long have you been dancing? So I started tango in 2009. And before that, I didn't really have any dance experience, but I did a lot of yoga. So I became a yoga teacher when I was about 21. And just.

it, yoga was like my first movement love. I just fell in love with it immediately. And it healed my body. And then I kind of got into this addictive space with it that, you know, you get kind of like a junkie with yoga as well. It's kind of the same thing. You're chasing that high. And so I had many years of that. And I think it was

Yoga was my entry point into dancing. I couldn't imagine myself being a dancer. I didn't feel like I was a dancer. I deserve to be a dancer. You know, I have this stuff I kind of carried with myself through childhood, like believing that I'm not, since I'm not trained, I don't get to be a dancer, you know. So I was doing yoga for a long time and I got to this place where

I understood the form, I perfected the form, I got all the poses, I understood how to teach it. I kind of like knew it inside out. I studied philosophy, I studied Sanskrit, I studied meditation, and I studied different types of meditation and yoga and all that. And then in 2009 is when I got introduced to tango. And at that time, I felt like yoga was sort of getting boring, because I felt like I didn't have that.

Yelizaveta (46:09.97)

artistic expressive outlet that I was needing and dance was a way to get it. And so that's when tango came in and at that point that's when I started and most people thought when they would dance with me at the beginning they thought that I was a dancer already which gave me some kind of confidence and be like oh I'm kind of good at this you know so that sort of kept me in.

And then I started actually really exploring all the dances and kind of got into the fusion scene and contact to improv, ecstatic dance. Contact is fun. You know, like, yeah, all of that. When I was living in Portland, I basically had this five year period of just immersing myself in dance and dancing all the time, every day, I have different kinds, you know, going from.

fusion to tango to house party afterwards to you know whatever so i was like i was sort of absorbing all that energy that i missed out on i think from you know

my childhood when I actually wanted to do dance, but I didn't get to, because I was just too old. By the time I was seven, I was too old to start ballet. So I wanna make a quick comment on that. So I had a ballet teacher, her name was Marie de la Pomme, rest her soul. She said this one time, she said this like one little nugget, and it was like, every body is a dancer, right? Every, like, doesn't matter if you're,

like 50 and like, like massively overweight, or if you're like 30 and just learning how to dance, like there's, everybody has a place in dance. You don't have, no, not everyone is going to be this like elite top performer, whatever, you know? And I think that's especially true in tango is like, there's

Yelizaveta (48:07.21)

all sorts, right? There's like the milongueros who just do their thing every week. And there's the weirdos like us who like really like dive into it and like try to understand it. And there's people who were like bred doing it essentially. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I think there's a space for everybody in tango, you know? That's for sure. And to your point.

of all the dances, I think, and I'm preaching to the choir here, I know, but of all the dances, tango is the most accessible in certain ways because, you know, swing and salsa can become too energy demanding as you get older.

ballet of course is not really that accessible to older people. So when it comes to the highest possibility of like doing a dance and continuing into old age, it's like tango really checks out in so many ways. And it's inspiring, I think, to see it play out because you really get to meet people that you would never think were dancers, you know. So I know that we have been added for

little while so I'm not gonna keep you too much longer because...

I know I could banter forever, but I wanted to just spend a little bit of time talking about your project, your podcast. Yeah, definitely. And if you wouldn't mind sharing your vision for your podcast, I'd love to. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I have a podcast that's called In My Element. And essentially the idea is we're talking to people who live in their element. So I actually live in a Honda element, right?

Yelizaveta (49:51.752)

I chose to do this is so I can like focus my energy and time to like tango dance essentially right so I can like go to the Malanga and just like sleep in the back of my car I did not I don't think I knew that about you really that you actually live in your tango element yeah I really do yeah so yeah so I live in this like little like SUV car situation and yeah one of the reasons I

LA to dance at a Malonga or whatever then at night I just

find somewhere to sleep and I park it somewhere and I wake up the next day and I go to the gym and teach yoga and shower and just do my other stuff. Wow. But originally I did it because I wanted to go to Argentina for a while. And I was like, I need to save money to go to Argentina. I was like, how am I gonna do this? I'm like, all right, well maybe if I just like live in my car for a little bit, I can save the money to go and do it. And then I found myself just going like back and forth between work and milongas and all this stuff and I was never home. I was like, what's the point?

and like keeping a home. So I'm just gonna live very minimally out of this thing so I can focus all of my attention and time to like living or to dancing tango essentially. But anyway, so the podcast is about people who live in their element, like physically like live in their Honda Elevants, but then also it's a play on words because we can talk to anybody who lives in their element, right? Someone who's like a very like in,

dancer or someone who's very passionate about like rock climbing or any sort of other things. So it's going to take place in my second Honda Element, which is being converted into like a mobile podcast studio. Wow. Essentially. So you now have two elements for two different purposes. Yeah. I'm imagining an army of elements spread out all over and then you might be.

Yelizaveta (51:55.03)

traveling around and you'll have a portable dance floor and you'll just bring the Malanga with you. Right, we could just like pull out the dance floor just stick it on the ground somewhere. I've had that fantasy of like getting a little van and just going from city to city and meeting up with people stringing up some lights and having a little roadside Malanga. That's what I just did. I just came back from Montana and I went up with a bunch of my Honda Element friends and we all went

Yelizaveta (52:25.384)

It's this whole thing. It's a thing. It's like the Volkswagen Bug, but Honda Elements essentially. Anyway, when I was up in Seattle, I was like, well, I'm here, so I'm going to dance. So I danced in Seattle and I came down. I danced in Portland on the way down back to LA. Wow. That's the way to do it. It's great. That's amazing. And how big is this community of Element owners?

Is this like in the thousands? Definitely. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So it's like a whole culture. It's like a whole, it's a whole thing. Do they still make them on? And that's that adds to the cult status. Yeah. Because they don't make them anymore. That's fantastic. It's, it's, it's very interesting. It was fun. Wow. So in my element on YouTube, you guys can look up the podcasts. Yes.

Anything else from you, Stephen? Are there any parting thoughts or? Yeah. You know, I, I just had, I just had one question. It's, it's kind of like, what is, how has like the tango, this is what I wanted to get to, how has the tango scene changed for you since you started to where you are now since I've started in 2009? Yeah. Uh, well, I.

I want to say it's changed for the better overall. I feel like it's grown quite a bit. There's more, definitely more demand, more tango in general, more events. There's a lot more resources. It's much easier to learn tango now than it was when I was first starting. There's just more information, more examples of good tango. You know, when I first started, it was like,

I think there was like three videos on YouTube or something. It was just so minimal. There's so little and I felt very confused for a long time. So I think accessibility to it and overall number of teachers and classes, all of that has expanded, you know, which is great.

Yelizaveta (54:31.222)

I think what hasn't changed much that I very much want to see changed is the image of tango that's portrayed to the public, to people who don't know about it. It's still- The red rose and- Yeah, I mean, it's still very, it's fascinating that of all the changes and developments that's happened in terms of like how many professionals there are and-

teachers and classes that it's still very traditional image of it that's being put out and still people think very much that it's, you have to look a certain way and you have to dress a certain way. And that piece is still, you know, there. However, the thing that's I think now that I'm seeing that's been the biggest change that I could single out is the most, the one that I'm most excited about is the growth of the queer tango. That's

really starting to have some legs to it and there's more.

people who are openly queer performing and they're not just, it's not just that it's like, oh, it's a woman leading or it's two women dancing with each other, it's two men, but it's like two artists, obviously people who really have thought about their image, what they wanna look like, they're experimenting with their attire, their style, they're creating their own stylization of movement. So that's changed.

quite a bit since I started and I hope that continues more because I think that we've just sort of scratching the surface you know but also there's been this sort of like expansion and contraction going on when I came to tango it we were just on that

Yelizaveta (56:20.606)

at that moment of like contracting away from all the nuevo energy, because nuevo came in the nineties and then it all kind of exploded and everybody was doing nuevo. And I came in and there was just this like lashing back against that and making it a little bit more conservative again. And so we've been writing on that for a while. It's just been like conservative, conservative. And now just in the last maybe year or so, like post COVID,

like there's starting to be this other wave of people who are interested in experimenting. And I'm hoping to see what comes of it. And I want to definitely contribute to that for sure. Awesome. So yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you. This was really fun. Yeah. Thanks for rolling with it.

punches. Make sure you guys subscribe, thumbs up. I know, I need to say that every time. You don't have to, but people will do it because they don't know, they forget to do it. So if you just say- Don't forget to do it. If you want to support, it's an easy, low effort way to support. It's like boom, subscribe and thumbs up so people can see it. It helps the algorithm grow and helps you grow and brings more awareness and attention to Tango in general. Wow. I really appreciate your support.

Namaste, dude. Namaste. All right. Look at that. Nice.